It is not every day you can talk to a Hallmark trailblazer that has created not one, but two of the most iconic sleuthers in Hallmark History: Hannah Swensen and Alex McPherson (Chronicle Mysteries).
But that is exactly who Alison Sweeney is.
We learned that, unlike most Hallmark talent who are simply cast in their roles, Alison actually creates her characters and stories and pitches them to Hallmark. Her true driving force is her fans, and she makes sure she creates stories that appeal to them.
We, of course, dive into the new Hannah Swensen mystery, One Bad Apple. We chat about the casting of Victor Webster to replace Cameron Mathison, the return or Norman and Andrea, and her first foray into writing a mystery.
And it wouldn't be a Hallmark Mysteries and More podcast if there wasn't at least one big clue to get sleuthers excited.
Follow us on social media:
Instagram: @hallmarkmysteriesandmore
Youtube
Or visit our website.
This podcast was created by fans for fans and is NOT affiliated with or sponsored by Hallmark or the Hallmark Channel.
It is not every day you can talk to a Hallmark trailblazer that has created not one, but two of the most iconic sleuthers in Hallmark History: Hannah Swensen and Alex McPherson (Chronicle Mysteries).
But that is exactly who Alison Sweeney is.
We learned that, unlike most Hallmark talent who are simply cast in their roles, Alison actually creates her characters and stories and pitches them to Hallmark. Her true driving force is her fans, and she makes sure she creates stories that appeal to them.
We, of course, dive into the new Hannah Swensen mystery, One Bad Apple. We chat about the casting of Victor Webster to replace Cameron Mathison, the return or Norman and Andrea, and her first foray into writing a mystery.
And it wouldn't be a Hallmark Mysteries and More podcast if there wasn't at least one big clue to get sleuthers excited.
Follow us on social media:
Instagram: @hallmarkmysteriesandmore
Youtube
Or visit our website.
This podcast was created by fans for fans and is NOT affiliated with or sponsored by Hallmark or the Hallmark Channel.
Hello Luthers today is amazing because we are talking to the one the only Alison's mean, she has created not one, but two iconic sleuthing characters with Hannah Swenson and Ella Pearson from the Chronicle mysteries. Today's interview is super interesting. She's a fascinating person who gets a very big clue at the end of this interview with something that is upcoming. So put your suit their hats on. Turn your volume off. This podcast was created by fans porque is not affiliated with or sponsored by Hallmark, or the Hallmark Channel. Today is amazing. It has been over a year in the making. We had, we're supposed to talk to Allison last year, and then strike happen and all sorts of things. So we are so excited. awesome to have you here to talk about one bad apple how're you doing today? I'm fantastic. Thanks so much for having me on. I have to say this is a big interview for us too, because my wife is not a hallmark fan. And so when I when I do these, I'll say the actor whoever said like okay, that's nice, nice. And then I said ahead you and she's like, I know her from your life. So you're one of 2x two actors that she knows the other. She only knows as the hot guy, which is Kristoffer Polaha. And she's like, Yeah, gotta get him. Yeah, she's just like, she doesn't really know anything that is and she just knows that. He's the hot guy. So that's a nice guy. I love Kris. But you have not been in. Right, right? No, no, I haven't. But he is married to his hot wife who used to be on days of our lives to shoot him as Julianne character. On days were alive. Oh my gosh. This is pulling out my trivia. She was I remember her swamp girl. But I know Greta, that was her name. Greta. So tell your wife Greta is real life husband is Kris blah. I will have to do that. Speaking of data life, how does Hallmark or the producer go ahead and get evil Sam, Sammy Brady, and think oh, this is a perfect you know, actor to come over on the Hallmark channel because I have not myself watched it. But for now. I've heard you're not the most likable. Yeah, you're right. So it was a long time coming. I love Hallmark movies. And we had been working to try to figure out the right timing because I the thing about filming digital lives is that you essentially work all year round. There wasn't really an opportunity for me to take time off to do something else. And they were just really always very supportive at Hallmark. Like we'll figure it out. We'll find the right time. And then we finally did and actually my first movie with Hallmark was with my soon to be co star does realize he played his name is Greg Vaughn. And these are stories that you're the fans will know that you don't. But he ended up playing my brother, my twin brother, I didn't realize. But luckily before we worked together as siblings, we had a romance on my very first Hallmark movie that went through several different name changes, but I think it was called the hearts of fire at one point. And it was so much fun. So that was my first my first introduction to Hallmark. And then he became your brother, twin brother. And then it Yeah, so it's just such a soap opera like such a just Toby thing that ended up happening. That was hilarious. All right. Well, now you know, like, basically a decade later, you're one of the main Hallmark actors. So I'm sure when it comes around to the holiday season, then they're like, hey, Alison, you want to be in one of our movies? You get sort of to choose which one you want to be and what do you look for when you select which movie to be in? So my situation is a little bit different. I actually bring ideas to homework. I like to develop my own content. And so mostly I produce my own movies for homework and I bring them ideas of things that I want to be in and projects I like or scripts I like or ideas and stories I like and I I bring them to the network and the different executives that are in charge of either Christmas or mysteries or whatever. And I pitched them ideas for the movies that I want to be in. Luckily they normally love you know, hopefully, we have a great reaction. I like to say that I understand the homework. Hopefully I understand the homework Dance. But I certainly, you know, work really hard to understand the Hallmark, you know, the executives and what they're looking for. And I always sort of start the conversation with what kind of movies do you want? What do you have already developed for this Christmas? Where can I, you know, do something that's a little different. Where can I fit in? And so that's, you know, that's how those conversations start. Interest. I knew you produced a lot of them, but I didn't realize like you're there. That's your fancy. Very good. I think you're reading my questions, because my next question your perfect lead into it. So Hallmark gets a lot of Chris criticism for being formulaic. Yet. A lot of other networks. And even like some of the big streamers, try to copy it. But no one can actually do it. Right. So they make a movie, that should be the same thing. Sometimes the same actors sometimes are the same writers. But it doesn't quite have that Hallmark magic. How do you explain how Hallmark can just get it right? And yet others seemingly have such a hard time with that? I think that people underestimate the Hallmark Immune Formula is just not the right word. But there is any magic, I feel it's true. But it there's a lot that goes into and I think they that Hallmark movies are very much underestimated. You I get pitched all the time. Like, oh, I could write a Hallmark movie, oh, I have an idea for a Hallmark movie. And you're like, okay, great, and then they pitch it to you, and you're like, but that's the very beginning of an idea. Like, that isn't enough. You know, the homework executives work really hard on challenging us when we write a script, or when we bring them an idea. You know, there's so much work that goes into it. So it is never as simple as like, as it seems. And I think that's what lends itself to that magic that you're mentioning, and that the audience has come to expect and demand from especially the Christmas movies, but all your mountains, you know, we we never, certainly I worked really hard not to underestimate the audience, I work really hard to make sure that I satisfied the things they want from a Hallmark movie, but maybe in a new and different way and that they didn't anticipate or just something to keep people on their toes and give them a little unexpected flair along the way. And while still bringing them the joy, the Christmas joy or the romance or all of the above the family dynamic that they have come to look forward to in these movies. We are here to talk about one bad apple and Hannah Swinson. But one of my favorite mysteries is chronicle mysteries, and a lot of other people love it. It is Thank you. It is one of the best. But I have to ask, is it true that you got canceled because Alex was getting to the point where she had a kiss Drew and you just wanted nothing to do with Benjamin and you're like, cancel the series? Can't go there is stuff to go? No, of course that's not true. But all right, and honestly, from what we've heard, it's not officially canceled. That's right, it as far as I've heard, it's not officially canceled. I think, you know, I don't disagree with Hallmark bit. In the world of the mysteries, it's probably confusing and weird to have me star in two different mystery series. But I don't see a problem with that. But I'm happy to not I just I am happy to make the movies that you know the that they're asking for right now and keep my options open. So hopefully, I love the story of Alex and drew, I love those. I love that whole premise. And I thought it was a lot of fun. So and I you know, of course, I'm obsessed with True Crime podcasts. So I have plenty of ideas, waiting in the wings for another had cast for Alex. But you know, that's not where your homework is right now. So I'm happy to be focusing on Hannah and have Alex ready for whenever, whenever they need her. Well, I will say and you can use this as ammunition and we just talked clay to Lisa Hamilton Daly last week and she said that they are going to be bringing back some of the older mysteries but as Luthers it has never been an issue of you being in both and being confused. Like oh, there's Hannah. Oh, wait, there's Alex. So from I'll say the fan standpoint, there's absolutely no hesitation and I speak for every single fan out there. I've been I've been voted the voice so I love it. Thank you. Now from you though, from you. Was it challenging? Like Like I said from from us as a fan? It wasn't challenging, but for you was it challenging? Doing both mysteries? Um, no, I I see them very differently. They're very different. characters, I think their stories are very different. What I really liked about because, you know, I developed the Chronicle mysteries series from ground zero with Melissa salmons, who is a very talented writer, who I've done a ton of movies with and Craig Baum garden, my producing partner. And we love the idea that Alex is a podcaster it felt a little fresh and modern and, and relevant to, you know, what people are talking about now in the, you know, all the Netflix documentaries that are like, it just felt like a really relevant way to bring in sort of the modern armchair detective feeling, but still in a very Jessica Fletcher way, you know, I mean, it just, it felt really relevant. And, and then yet very Hallmark. So I stand by that story, I said, I love that world. And I thought Alex, you know, had a really interesting and different dynamic that she brings to it. Whereas, you know, Hannah's a little more, she's got all her family around her. And, you know, she's embroiled, like, she's got all these people coming into the cookie jar all the time. And she's sort of, at the heart of her community in Lake Eden, I think that Alex is a bit more a lone wolf. And that was sort of the compelling thing for me with that storyline that I loved was just she felt a little bit adrift and on our own and independent, and this whole community of people at the newspaper, like, pulled her into their world and, you know, gave gave her a reason to stay in a way that was really fun and totally unique to me. Yes. And while we love our, you know, our bakers, Luthers, and that kind of thing. There also was an appropriateness for Alex to be out solving mysteries more, so maybe then, yes, a baker, which, like I say, We love our cozy mystery in that aspect. But it just was a little more, and probably is not the right word, a little more sophisticated of a mystery, because it's like, say, a reporter and a podcast or doing true crime. Totally makes sense on a different level. So yeah, that's exactly how I felt to be so. Yeah. So that's our new campaign that we have you on board and we have, yeah. 2025 It's happening. Okay. All right. Okay, you heard it here first. So awesome. Murder, she bakes lash, Hannah Swensen has evolved, you know, it's almost a decade long of making those, from your standpoint, what has been the biggest from the acting standpoint, we'll get into some of the behind the scenes, you know, the writing and all that, but what has been like really the biggest difference you've noticed from Hannah from the beginning to, to now, how she evolved? Um, well, I do think that we went from, you know, the very first Hannah's content, and I think the books reflect this also, you know, John, Luke has written these wonderful novels that we've, you know, had the opportunity, the great good fortune to bring to life, in that I think, Hannah's come a long way from chocolate chip cookie murder, which was the very first novel, where, you know, she sort of happened upon this crime, it happened to someone she knew. And she was a bit mixed up in as a suspect, and brought into it sort of unwillingly, and then she sort of realized, like, I better figure out what's going on here, because, you know, the cops don't believe me. And so I think that was a really natural way into the story. And then along the way, you know, eight murders later, um, she, I think the audience expects her to learn a little bit about what she's doing and expect more from herself. And that was, that was part of what we wanted in telling the stories. And I think that's the arc that Hallmark has come to also with what the fans want was, you know, that that feeling of like, oh, that could be me. Everyone sort of loves that about watching the movies that like they, you do want it in the audience to feel like I'm that armchair detective, I could, so I could have figured that out. And I do want that. But now the audience, they are watching Dateline, they are watching these Netflix, you know, True Crime documentaries. So I think the audience is sort of elevated their own understanding of solving murders and how to get the evidence, you know, to convict someone. So I think it's fun to elevate Hannah in that way also, and have her expect more from herself. Do I remember when I first started making these movies? They didn't want us to use words like suspect you really wanted or they wanted the words to stay very, you know, like not cop ish. And now I think we're all a little more educated about like, because Of all this just the pop culture phenomenon, I think everyone's a little more understanding of, you know, the the system and how it works and what those you know what a bolo is, you know, you can people can figure out, you know, be on the lookout. And so it's just fun to include that in the in the characters now. Well, I think just in general Hallmark to has, especially the last couple of years, become a much different network than than it was especially like the mysteries we saw. You know, the cases, Mr. Lane had a secret gay relationship, which you never would have saw back in 2015 days and things. So yeah. Like you said, you spoke to Lisa about, you know, those, those changes and what they're looking for moving forward. And for me, it's all about what the fans want to see and supporting that and giving them you know, the exciting movies they want to watch. That's what's, that's what's so rewarding to me. So one of the things we cannot talk, Hannah Swenson and not talk about Dolores, who is one of our favorite we just did our favorite sidekicks. And she was the one who made both of our lists. She is Barbara Niven is essentially a national treasure. And she's getting funnier and funnier. I don't know if that was a conscious, I'm sure it was a conscious decision. But like, just just tell us a little bit more because we obviously love her, but just make us love her. A lot of them. Yeah, there's no way not to love her more. I, she makes me laugh every day. I know, she does not always play these roles. So you know, I watched Chesapeake shores. And it was so sincere and real, you know, real drama content that she provides. But for me, I always see her as Dolores and she just cracks me up. And so the I just want to be Barbara when I grew up, like she's just brilliant. And so when I wrote this, this particular movie, one bad apple with her in mind that I mean, like, all of that was just comedy that I could picture. I was dreaming about Barbara Niven and waking up and just writing down. Like I said, you've already all acted this in my head. So I know it's gonna work out great. Because she's just, she's just so talented and funny. And she made this happen. Like she brought this brilliance to this character. Yeah, like carrot cake. Oh, that was I remember taking that story, just so you know, like, so that's in one of the novels in one of giant flux novels that Dolores writes a romance novel. And I remember reading that and like almost falling out of my chair. Like the the movie just writes itself from that point. And so I literally, you know, I had a little bit more planned for like, what the murder mystery was going to be and stuff. But basically, I just took that into the homework and pitched them that I was like to wait, I was like, Wait, everybody just wait to Loris writes a romance novel. And now they were like, so let's, let's like everyone just fell over dying and knew that that was just brilliant. Brilliant. And so we had to make that movie. Speaking a carrot cake, though. There was a lot of controversy at the end of that one. And I will say, people were very divided. There was like, team, Hannah, team, Mike over, was Hannah just overreacting, or was Mike just doing his job. I personally was on Team Hannah. But like going into it, or I should say coming out of it, you had to know that it was going to be quite a bit of of controversy and fans were going to like, because it also just you know, unbeknownst, sorry, unbeknownst, it also was right after the announcement of mystery 101 being cancelled. So bans were already being which I had no idea about, right? They didn't. I was busy worrying about my own, you know, choices as a producer. And you know what, honoring these books where, you know, I mean, like she gets engaged, she gets engaged, she marries some weirdo who turns out to like, not be who he said he was. I mean, like, whatever these stories, the Hannahs was a character in the book go through a lot in 30 Plus novels. And so you know, that weighs on you and then are you like, I'm a huge fan of TV. I was on destroyers for so many years. I understand fan bases, and I know how they feel and so when this you want to want to happen I was like, and then you know, our movie was just minding its own business airing at this I was like, Oh my God, that's not fair. Why did this have to happen? I was freaking out. And, you know, I just really, I hope the fans know and I hope they're listening know that like, they're, they mean so much to me and how they feel about these movies means a lot to me. But But I want that for the long haul, like, I am looking to make 30 of these movies. And so to protect that sometimes you have to do short term you to pull the band aid off short term, it's Believe me, I get it. It's painful, but hopefully they trust me and give me a chance. Well, I'll say that. It, we knew obviously, there was another one coming because that was a beautiful thing that call Mark said, hey there, too. We're coming. So people had that. But ending on that. I was I was a big champion of that. I was like, you cannot air this movie without announcing the night. Like they have to know they have to know now they have to know before they watch it. Yeah, very strong. Because that was a doozy of a cliffhanger. And I think Hannah was completely justified because I think Mike was not being respectful of not communicating all of that sort of stuff. So I am okay. Thank you, Eric. Yes. All right. So it's really but buddy, but even within that story, it was really important to me that it was really important to me that they both felt they came to it from an honest point of view, right. Like, I do think that Mike had his his own perspective that he was trying to protect her. He didn't think it would go anywhere. Like he thought it was he could. He didn't he didn't want to upset her. And I totally sympathize with that feeling from his point of view that he he sort of thought it would all work out. And it's not that he underestimates her, it's that he didn't want to explain himself to his boss and, and so I felt like they both came to that argument with a real, legitimate point of view. And that's important to me in the storytelling. And again, Melissa salmons wrote that episode and she did such a, I think such a finesse, finesse it, she finessed it so well, to honor both characters and that no one was being a jerk about it, you know, like, I felt like, everyone came into it with a really sincere point of view. And, and Cameron was so brilliant in that scene, you know, playing his own frustration, and then the heartbreak of realizing he really heard her. And then, you know, my actual favorite part of that scene was the pad where he brings her the cat house and stands there and looks at her from the street, like, you know, live to fight another day, like I loved I love that. That, to me, speaks of my soap roots, you know, we love the drama of that. I will say, and you can pat yourself on the back. But the final, I don't know, 15 minutes or so of the the acting in that. You guys were both just absolutely spectacular. Probably some of the best, just darn right acting in one of the hallmark mysteries. It was fantastic. Thank you. Oh, that's nice to hear. Thank you. All right. But we are here to talk about one bad apple, which is coming out in two weeks. And this is your first time writing, like officially, I guess writing, we just spoke to Nikki Lowe, who wrote her first Hallmark mystery that Erica about a month ago now. And it was interesting getting her perspective of switching sides, you know, and I'm sure that you've produced enough and you've been involved enough in the creation. But really, what was it like, sort of taking ownership of the HANA character that you you know, that you've been for 10 years, it felt there was a lot of pressure and a lot of stress. I can't wait to talk to Nicky about her experience. But for me, I felt a tremendous amount of pressure in the situation we found ourselves in with bringing in Victor, introducing Victor to the HANA universe was, you know, obviously a lot of responsibility, but also picking up where so many talented writers have written these characters and given you movies that you loved, the fans have loved over the years. So I felt a lot of that pressure. But also I felt I was handed this beautiful canvas of very talented actors that are already knew really well. So I could I'm not kidding, I really did hear, you know, Lisa drew plays my sister Andrea and Barbara. And Michelle, like, I could hear them in my head. So when I wrote the family scenes, there's a couple of like, one liners that Michelle has that just like, I just could hear, I could hear the deadpan way that she plays it and like how that would fit in, in the dynamic with Andrea being, you know, her mother's precious pride and joy and all that, like all those dynamics felt, you know, out on the red carpet for me to just pick from my favorite moments to put together in the story and so in some ways I I know how lucky I am to have to have had that all mapped out for me already. Having so one of the things is I've taken enough to where I read the books. Now that are the mysteries that are based on books. And so I've read quite a few of the Hannah Swensen spec, my daughter, and I, my daughter's 26. She read them all when she was young. And now we are just doing like a little book club where we're reading them together, going, going through them. But if you do read the books, and then you watch the movie, many of them are not very similar. Right? Right. So like, with with one one bad apple, that's Apple, or apple turnover, murder, right? Like, a combination of two. It's apple turnover. And I can't remember the other one. But it will. So first of all, you know, we talked to Joanne Fluke about all of it along the way. But you know, she started writing these novels in the 80s, right, like, if you've had any conversations about the mystery novel, but with a character who like literally doesn't even have a cell phone, nevermind, the smart is so many. And that's true. Like, if you watch Perry Mason or Columbo, you'd be like, Oh, my gosh, one Google search, and this mystery is over, right. So like, the, the challenge to writing a mystery in the 21st century is very different from how, what it was, like, you know, before technology is what it is. So I do feel a little bit a license to adapt stories. And then also, you know, there's a lot of character development that isn't appropriate for Hallmark. And also, you know, just not appropriate for the era, we find ourselves in 2024. So, you know, all those things need to be adapted. And once you've gotten that far, then, you know, they're just, it's going to be different. And so I try to, I try to take all the little gems and the nuggets I can from from her books, like, you know, sometimes I can get great ones like, I'm the one before carrot cake was just desserts, maybe. And that was the one where like, the trainer is found in hot frame. And that's the scene that was Joanne flukes idea that's in the book that she it's cream clock murder, and she's, you know, found in a in a gym, hot tub, and I was like, That is brilliant, like, that's so great and fun to be able to bring that into, into the movie. And, you know, so so each one has its own strengths and things I can pull from, like, in this one in one bad apple, the graveyard scene is from is from the book. You know, that was like, amazing. And I didn't even know if we could afford it, or if we could do it, but I was like, if we can find a graveyard like that would be so cool. So I was so grateful and lucky that it all worked out. And you know, but there's other things like, I kind of wanted to surprise the audience with who the victim is in this one. And so it was, that was a big challenge for me in terms of, you know, hoping the audience goes along for the ride of like, what's gonna happen and who are these characters in, you know, where does Bradford and Norman fit in without like, like, what's, what's this? What's gonna happen, and then boom, like, that was how I was hoping it'll surprise the audience. So as we're talking about the book, a lot of people do get frustrated with Hannah and her in decisiveness, especially with the like the love triangles, but when you read the books, she's very indecisive and lit, like losing both and so it's actually I always countered people. Well, that is, you know, the mad, but I'm like, That is who Hannah really is. Right? Yeah, not always clean. It's not always easy. But I guess that's the thing. And we said, Hannah's also a little more than less a floozy is, but not very Hallmark key, right? She didn't have to adapt. And, and so and keep in mind that like, I also have to be respectful and continue to get joy and flute to agree to, you know, want these movies to be televised the way that we're interpreting this character, and she has very strong feelings about who Hannah is and she has a say in it also. So you know, that's an important element for us to be respectful of and pay attention to. The other thing you were saying is they were written started well way back when and she hers are actually not as bad some of the other cozy mysteries are just certainly not appropriate in today's day and age just because once again, we're in a very different time so it's a little bit easier, I guess, probably with with with her books than some of the others to adapt and not have to In a curious, cater is just darn right. A vicious book? Oh geez, I didn't know that. Oh, yeah, it has. Yeah. So it'll be use and like, yeah, really bad stuff in that one. So you have it a little bit easier in this one? Well, I'll take that. I'll keep that in mind. So, yeah, sorry. So you've written now in you've obviously produce is directing like the next adventure for you. I'm certainly it's when we talk about all the time, I would love to have that opportunity. Ashley Williams, does an amazing program with hallmark for female directors. So it's certainly one we've discussed quite a bit. And I would love to take advantage that opportunity at some point. But I know and I try to be really realistic about the way that we film these movies is not like a Ben Affleck movie where he can star in it, or, you know, Clint Eastwood where they have all the money and all the time in the world to like, go back and sit there and watch the tapes over and over, like our format is just not bad. So you can I don't think it wouldn't be comfortable for me to star in a movie that I was also directing. Because I just wouldn't. That is those are two jobs that really do need to be simultaneously focused on what they're doing. So what Ashley has done was direct movies that she's not starring in and I feel that's much more realistic. And so that would have to be the way I pursue it. Are you trying to say that two weeks is not plenty of time to make a movie? Right? It's not enough time. It's definitely not enough time. There. We are always, you know, rushing at the end, wishing we had more time. So a little off script here, but does the does your background and the soaps and you're saying how you're always filming and just the nature of that? Did that prepare you more for the Hallmark way of doing movies? Can you talk to Brennan Elliot? And he said there's very talented actors who just cannot survive in the Hallmark timeline, and just the speed and everything that So did that. So background you think make you more prepared and better suited? Like without question it has, yes, absolutely. Being a part of this of days was so crucial to my education and my understanding and the way I work the way we're, you know, so quick to adapt. You haven't lived until you've been handed four pages to memorize like, and by the way, we're going to shoot that next. So get ready. And once you've done stuff like that, everything else is. So you know, we do talk a lot about how fast we have to move and how we don't have enough time to film these movies. But I still go to work everyday like Oh, you people like this is so much time. What are you talking about? This is like, this is way more time. I mean, we shoot 120 pages a day and days where lives and and on the movies is 10 pages a day, and people are panicking. And I'm like, I cannot get invested in panicking for 10 pages a day. Like that's just nothing. And so they I regale people with stories all the time about it. But that is, you know, that is what I think you do have to develop. And Brennan is a great example of an actor who just is so quick on his feet so smart and able to deal with you know, what the format that we are working in and able to still do it naturally and organically and comfortably and make the actors, the actress they're working opposite feel at ease and natural and develop that kind of rapport and relationship. Like it all has to happen in such a limited amount of time. And so yeah, you find people who are good at it and you find yourself just wanting to work with those people all the time. You mentioned it before that there was a change with Cameron and Victor is now the new one. We can talk by the way about his name being Chad, but that's a whole nother discussion. It's a character from the book. Okay. Oh, it is see I haven't read this one. So okay. So yeah, it is Chad. Make something out of it that you did say you have truck you did see you have creative license, but we'll let that slide because once again, I am team Hannah. But so you do bring in Victor. And we coincidently had done a post we pretty much knew that some change was going to be happening with camera and and so we're who do we want? And we've wanted Victor in a mystery for a while. And then there's you in the wedding veil with Victor which was just fire. And so we said, oh, this is who I should and it's kind of like I was talking before I accidentally released. You know the thing about about curious caterers so we said we did look little animation where it went from Cameron, who dissolves into Victor and said, This is what it should be. And so our fans, first of all their heads exploded. But then it was universally like yes, we want Victor. We want Victor and then like two weeks later it got announced. Oh, hey, this is coming out with Victor crazy. You guys are you got it, sir. You should run the network like you're doing. Yeah. But also that's exactly the reaction I had when Hallmark approached me about Victor's availability and he might be interested like, what do you think I seriously like was like, yes, yes. What do we have to do? Yes, right now call him back alone. Yes. Don't. Don't let him do anything else. Like, that, wasn't you? That's what my question was. So you weren't like knowing that, hey, we're going forward. I want Victor we were so great here. This is the guy so it was sort of they asked you what was actually Hallmark? Yeah, it was interesting remarks idea, which I just, you know, I was still not at that stage yet. I felt a little bit at sea with what to do. And it was Hallmark that approached me with the idea of like, we'll Victor's available. Victor's an actor we love and, you know, what would you think about, you know, us going to him? And like, as the words were still hanging in the air, I was like, Oh, my gosh, yes. We, yes. How do I make this happen? And so then we strategized about it. They were they said, we have to, you know, approach Victor ask him if he'd be here, he does not know yet. So like, I pitched and developed an idea of what his character would be like, and we had a meeting with him and I pitched it to him and he was very positive and responsive and he loved it and so and he said, Yes, so it was thrilling. I was so excited. But yeah, that's how that's how it happened. And I just my gut just the same way I guess you guys had that feeling like the second the idea the bubble hit you know, when it came to me I was like, yes, that feels so right and knowing Victor having done the two movies with him in the wedding veil and you know, the fan reaction to those movies I just like it just felt so right to me I wish I could take credit for it being my idea it was not my idea but if it I just least I know when to grab on to a good idea apparently apparently was already on Hallmark distillate so yeah. Oh, good. Thank you. Thank you for putting that in the universe because you made it happen. I will say that as I started before with crisp Aloha being like my wife Oh, the hot one and obviously very, very huge fan base. Victor is Bertie much right there with him? All you have to say is Victor, and that's like, good for an extra like 100 likes on our on any of yes, yeah, he's not a bad. So I was going to ask if there was any other candidates who were considered but it sounds like no, this is the one and and he's so good. So I mean, he's perfect for it perfect for Yeah, he's perfect for it. He's perfect for it. And he brings that like, he just brings such a new and different chemistry to the HANA universe, like I said, and just his, you know, like, he just I really, right away was, I could imagine how that was going to go and how, you know, the character how Chad would fit into this world. And I just knew Victor could do it. And I was so excited for you know, mixing it up in that way, giving him a little more about skepticism about Hannah was really fun to me. So we do have a new face there. But we also have a couple old faces coming back with you have Andrea and Norman back so that I will say from fans because that's the other thing we will never know not in it we always get from their fans saying where are they? Where are they? So that's going to make people very happy. But what else can you say just about this one? That should get all of us so excited. Well this I do want to speak to that because you guys you know everyone's very sharp about TV and and I hope people understand that is not that I don't want every actor in every movie. It's just that when you're balancing out, you know 84 minutes of programming like you have to be respectful of those characters and and who do you have time to tell a story about and so what I felt with this one was like that I really could tell an arc about Norman in this movie and that bringing Andrea back really did you know fit into this this world, especially with the lorises story arc of you know, becoming a detective like she needs her daughter's there to panic about it. So I just felt like, you know, Lonnie, becoming the detective was also like a really fun arc for me to bring him his character on a little bit. So I just felt like You know, I hope that the audience knows. And I think I said this at the beginning that I think about them. And I think about your fans and people who read the books and the fans of the movies all the time, like, there's not a decision I make, there's not a day that I don't think about these movies that I am not considering how they will react and how they feel about it. And it matters to me so much. I can't always do what everybody wants in every single scene and every single moment, but I hope they know that, that not that I am considering their feelings about it all the time. And so when I can give the people what they want, like, believe me, it is the most joy I get is Are those really fun family dynamics are that the scene at the end of one bad apple, I don't want to spoil anything. But like those kinds of moments, I feel bring me such joy because I know the audience is going to feel the same way I feel when I'm, you know, doing it, they're going to feel that same feeling watching it. And so, hopefully, hopefully, I turned out to be right about this one. But, um, but yeah, like, what I'm trying to create as a world around Hannah and Hannah universe of characters that like when it's available, when when, you know, Gabe is a busy guy with a lot of hit shows that he's a partner to. So you know, you have to make it worth his while and get him in for the story and, and include him and he, you know, boy does he deliver and I just love working with him. So I hope the audience understands that I am trying to, you know, keep it keep it all moving forward with the time and the budget and the opportunities that I have and how great and successful all these actors are. And keep keep it all mixed up so that every time it's new, and every time it's different, and and you know, we can we can keep it going, hopefully a long time to come juggling it all near like that. All right, look, I could not be more excited. Alright. Last question is, are there any easter eggs in there that maybe you could give us a little you don't have to tell us what is being give us a little hint that we should be looking for. So there is definitely an Easter egg shout out to Joe and Luke, we have a little mention of clever mystery books, with delicious recipes in them. So that was a little shout out to her that you'll find in it. And then I don't know, I feel like I put in a lot of little shout outs and mentions to previous stories. I love like callbacks to earlier mysteries and earlier situations they find themselves in and so that it all comes back around. So that so that's been fun for me to include. We'll be looking for the callbacks to the other one and seeing if we can figure out which which previous episode that was for. And then there is a little tiny shout out to what's to come in the future. So you got to keep there's a little little mention of what's next. Well, you're making 21 more of them. So 30 All right. This is the very last question yes or no? Have you ever made one of her Hannah's recipes from the book? Oh, yes, I have. And they're delicious. And actually, my next on my list mate is from this movie. There's marshmallow chocolate bars that are in mentioned in this rest in this movie and one bad apple. And we all got the pasted. The crew was like inhaling these desert. I was like, why is everyone you know, where did the rest of the props go? And they were like, eaten up by the camera crew. And so I was like, well, stabling, for me. So I had a bite of it. And it was the best dessert one of the best desserts I've ever had. So we do make her recipes all the time in the US. And that one was really good. All right, I got there. I just actually got the makings to make her blueberry muffins. So I'm gonna give that a go. All right. So interesting. What an odd choice for you. I think I'd read it was the one from the last one. I just read. Because I'm rereading. I'm with my daughter. Anything other than the Hannah Swensons coming up that we can look for you in or we wait until the holidays? No, no. There'll be something in your future. And it might have bloopers. Oh, well, that is what oh, there we go. That's the way to end on end on that like crazy. Good. Hint there. So love it. Oh, wait. I just thought of something. Interesting. All right. Wow, awesome. Thank you very much for giving me the time to talk about your movies. Our fans will love this. This was fascinating. gave a lot of good information. So yeah. Such a pleasure. Thanks.